The following are some preliminary thoughts of mine concerning the development of the cult of childhood in the West and its ramifications.
I recently came across the “To Catch a Predator” videos on YouTube and I must admit, they are very entertaining – in a sad sort of way. I watched several of them and then I got to thinking: There sure are a lot of these guys – and they certainly represent only the tip of the iceberg of men who would take advantage of an underage girl; most such men are smart enough (one would presume) to avoid getting caught in such a predicament. Moreover, men who would take advantage of an underage girl are certainly only the tip of the iceberg of men who would have sex with the same girl if only it were socially acceptable to do so. I would add that the very fact that underage girls are forbidden fruit probably makes them that much more alluring to some men.
Other bloggers, such as Human Stupidity and Robert Lindsay, have already pointed out that it is perfectly normal for men to be attracted to underage girls. Prepubescent girls, on the other hand, are a different matter. I am reasonably certain that the vast majority of men, if they found themselves stranded on an island with a well-developed 14 year old girl, would eventually break down and consummate this relationship.
Coincidentally, I’ve been reading “Selections from Protagoras, Republic, Phaedrus & Gorgias” by Plato. At the very beginning we read:
Companion: … I saw him the day before yesterday; and he had got a beard like a man – and he is a man, as I may tell you in your ear. But I thought that he was still very charming.
Socrates: What of his beard? Are you not of Homer’s opinion, who says, ‘Youth is most charming when the beard first appears’? And that is now the charm of Alcibiades.
We may, or may not, interpret the above as homoerotic or ephebophilic in nature. Either way, it is well documented that both homosexuality and ephebophilia were widely practiced in Greece during that era. As for the latter, it was certainly the norm in practically every society on Earth until very recently. If Chris Hanson’s ancestors were held to his standards, he would never have been born.
Granted, there is a huge difference between a middle aged man seeking thrills by having sex with a 14 year old girl who he almost certainly has no intention (or possibility) of ever marrying, and a courtship whose main goal is marriage and the founding of a family. The union between my own father and mother would be highly illegal today. Even back then people murmured that my father must be some sort of pervert – and maybe he was – but they’ve been together for about 55 years now. As a result, I sit hear and maintain this blog.
Like so many other things in life, it all comes back to unity versus “diversity”. It used to be acceptable for 25 year old men to court 14 year old women (or whatever you want to call them) because there was an intact culture in place. That culture demanded that they marry and start a family. Marriage was a commitment to be taken seriously. Today, there is no intact culture; only a mishmash of confusion held together by ever more numerous laws. In this environment, there is no expectation of marriage/commitment. Therefore, a middle-aged man having a fling with a 14 year old girl is most likely abusive. Their “relationship” can be reduced to its rawest component: Sex. And it’s a shame because, in other circumstances, that man might have turned out to be a great husband and father – just like my own father.
The cult of childhood in the West, and its extension, has gradually reduced even adults to children. An adult takes responsibility for his own actions and mistakes. A child is rarely held accountable. When a woman spills hot coffee in her lap and then sues the restaurant that sold her the coffee, is she truly a “woman”? Perhaps it would be more accurate to describe her as a child. Childhood has become so cherished and fortified that it has escaped its own boundaries and its tendrils reach out across what used to be “adulthood” all the way to the “second childhood”.
The Left, by and large, does not recognize the biological concept of race. One of the reasons it rejects this concept is that there are no clear boundaries between one race and another. This is, of course, a flawed argument but perhaps it is this same mentality that forces leftists (and conservatives) to insist on rigid age-of-consent laws. After all, if there is no clear boundary between childhood and adulthood (and there isn’t) then neither concept has any validity according to them. If so, there would be no basis for “statutory rape” laws. Even leftists will admit that ages of consent are arbitrary but “we have to draw the line somewhere” they say. I would agree that a line must be drawn in individual cases, but there can be no single line that makes sense for everybody – even within the same city or town. We all mature at different rates* and we all have different family situations. We also have different cultures (see “diversity” above).
*I remember visiting a family of Hassidim in Jerusalem who were good friends of mine. One of their daughters was around 13 or 14 years old and her older sister mentioned that perhaps it is time for her to start dating. The mother looked at her skinny frame and said, “No, she’s not ready yet; she needs more time” or something to that effect.
As a Black woman do you think I have a chance with Jewish men?
Normally I would “spam” such comments as being off topic and possible trolling – but this one is original and funny enough that I’ll let it pass!
I think that the lack of understanding of HBD and the lack of clarity around age of consent are connected. I work with variety of different schools from low income primarily hispanic and black schools to upper class alternative private schools. The differences in development at given age are striking both individually and group to another. A group of 14 year old black girls will mostly look fairly adult in apperance, hispanic girls not quite as mature as blacks but quite a few will look like they would be ready for marriage in a culture with different norms, poor whites are similar to hispanics, while upper class white groups and asians are the least developed if you sample from specifically creatives and computer tech children you won’t find a 14 year old girl who looks adult in the group. Life history trajectory is probably quite variable and strongly genetically influenced.
Yes, those differences in puberty age are documented in words such as Rushton’s “Race, Evolution and Behavior”. This is another important aspect of the role of “diversity” in confusing ages of consent.
Very nice article.
Fenris: you are right. The problem is if the law needs to be involved. So someone immature has some sexual activity. Maybe just kissing and fondling.
So, maybe it is unwise. But is it a catastrophe where the government MUST step in? Nowadays men go to jail just for kissing and fondling minors. No real sexuality is needed. Human-Stupidity has an entire thread with 49 posts on Teenage Sexuality
I agree that the main issue is liberty for adolescent sexuality. That it is totally absurd if men are on sex offender lists for having had sex with their now wife.
Now, at the risk of alienating people here, as a devil’s advocate, I want to state a few more issues where we might differ
After the advent of the pill and other birth control, responsible safe sex before marriage does not seem to be a mortal danger for society. Different from the US, in Europe this seems to be the norm.
I am not trying to promote sex with really immature children. But, as the seeker of truth I can not help but point out a few more things:
* I believe that in the old times and Greece, the age for sexual activities often was really low. It seems no major psychological damage was reported.
* it seems that very young sexual activities are NOT dangerous, or not to the point of needing draconian interference of government.
There is the famous Rind Study. Its results were
If the child was at least average intelligence and no violence was involved, then no damage could be found from so called “child abuse”.
This makes evolutionary sense: children, when of normal development and not forced, somehow should be prepared not to get themselves into too dangerous situations. (evolutionarily new situations like car traffic, machines, electricity are different, they did not occur in the EEA. Horny males were a normal occurrence to be dealt with, even among chimpanzes).
Now, I want to stress, I am not interested in promoting child sex. I am also not interested in restricting father’s and mother’s right to keep children away from such situations.
The main issue is: if even very young sexuality, even with relatively old men, seems not to cause damage, then there is really no pressing need to draw a line where government needs to interfere heavily to protect children.
So, the discussion if the 14 year old girl is old enough to date is of interest to the parents, and should not waste police and court time.
And, of course, no need to arrest 6 year olds for doctor play with other 4-8 year olds. This really is a US aberration. Again, I am NOT saying that parents should promote such activities.
And, of course, there is much less need for 15 year jail terms for photos of such acts, if they are naturally occurring and harmless. See 42 posts on Child Porn Witch Hunt
If, according to the Rind studies, there seems to be no major danger to 8 year olds sexual fiddling, then there is no urge to protect late maturing 16 year olds, or even 14 year olds. The issue of adult child sex is fairly exotic and rare. I am not interested in defending it. I am mainly interested in it to demonstrate that premature teenage sexuality are not deserving 10 year jail terms.
Probably the wisdom of the ages was right. I believe a typical age of consent 150 years ago was 12. And at those times biological maturation was slower then today.
Again, this does not mean one should promote sexuality of 12 year olds. It means that there is no need for severe government interference if early maturing 12 year old’s fondle, kiss or pet, when clearly consensual.
Yes, the Rind Study has a few problems. But, unfortunately, it is totally impossible to continue unbiased studies about these topics. The Rind study was unanimously condemned by the US congress and senate. A prestigious scientific study in one of the most prestigious journal of the American Psychological Association.
So if you think that research about race is hampered by political correctness, you have not seen anything yet. No unanimous 99:0 vote by the US senate to condemn any paper by J Philippe Rushton or Richard Lynn. Just a President Clinton condemning the Bell Curve.
Outside Nambla.org nobody wants to promote child sex. Scientists just want to look for truth. No matter what the consequences. Or rather they think that the truth is helpful for making intelligent policy decisions.
Most race researchers and race realists would be very happy if a way could be found to give intelligence, low crime and economic success to African countries and black communities in the US.
Human Stupidity also has a thread about Race & Intelligence
Age of consent laws around 18 or 16 enforced by draconian punishment are not supported by any scientific evidence.
Scientific research should be free and unencumbered by political correctness.
On all other issues we can agree to disagree …..
We have written about "To Catch a Predator" witch hunt by NBC Dateline & "Perverted Justice"" .
Don’t miss the hilarious Youtube Spoof of "Catch a Predator": Absurdity of Underage Sex Entrapment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=4Lx9RHo33tI another Chris Hansen spoof. Not as totally hilarious as the above, but pretty funny and true
Actually I saw that one and was thinking about sending you the link. I’m glad you already found it. Lots of truth in that!
Somebody should do one showing a medieval European courtship involving a young girl and a twenty something man. All of a sudden, Chris Hansen appears and asks the guy, “What are you doing here?” At which point Hansen says “Oops” and fades into oblivion – those were his would-be ancestors.
Have you seen this Chris Nansen Spoof?
(Due to the nature of this video, I decided to unembed it and link to it instead. It is an animation of Chris Hansen being sexually attacked by a black man who was lured to the house. JAY)
I was thinking it’s only a matter of time before somebody arrives armed and knocks him off in front of the cameras.
“That culture demanded that they marry and start a family. Marriage was a commitment to be taken seriously. Today, there is no intact culture; only a mishmash of confusion held together by ever more numerous laws. In this environment, there is no expectation of marriage/commitment.”
This hits the nail on the head. The whole point of marriage is that it ties man and wife into providing for the children come hell or high water. A healthy culture promotes and nurtures this institution. I could even conceive of having a daughter marry someone at age 15, for example… provided that I lived in a culture that allowed punishment (e.g. castration or worse) of the husband by the daughter’s relatives if he did the wrong thing by her.
Eventually there will be a backlash. It feels like we are at a point of decline in civilization – right before the Goths ride in. The police seem only to want to police the meek law-abiding citizens. Gangs (biker and others) are laws unto themselves – but their ways of gaining resources are parasitic and self-destructive. It is only a matter of time before law abiding citizens want the moral society that our current numerous laws are not giving them, and are willing to fight for it.
Ironically, that is the sort of thing will be fought the hardest because that represents the biggest threat to the system.
“Problems with Mixed-Race Marriages and Relationships”
Looks interesting; I’ll read it over the weekend. Thanks!
I wonder how many single, 35 year-old, childless women would have preferred to get married at 16 and raised kids instead.
I have always thought the sub rosa purpose of Chris Hansen and his “Catch a Predator” shows was to keep doing them over and over again in order to wear down our moral indignation to a 40-year old guy trying to do a 14-year old girl.
I expounded more here, four years ago now:
I see what you are saying, but my take on this is that it’s a popular program, they’re getting good ratings – and so they keep to the tried and proven. There is one thing you wrote that I agree with: The men who are caught are average joe’s. They look like normal guys – because they ARE normal guys – just more foolish than most and lacking restraint.
Americans seem very obsessed with worrying about pedophilia, moreso than other ocuntries. They made a spoof of this American obsession called paedogeddon. Here is part 1(of 3) on youtube.
That is very funny – but it seems to be dealing with British, not Americans. There’s probably no difference though.
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Your final non-italicized paragraph which blends pseudo arguments in favor of “race subjectiveness” and “age subjectiveness” as a vehicle by which to damn the “Left” is preposterous, you do realize?
If I thought it was preposterous, I would not have written it, would I? The gist of what I wrote is that the Left feels the need to see things as absolutes; they don’t like grey areas. Personally, I see no need for hard, immutable boundaries either in age or in race – but both are still valid concepts.
I agree both are valid concepts but it’s difficult for me to pin blame on left or right. The right is rather fond of immutability itself!
I’ll grant you that. The Left utilizes this tactic against the concept of race, and I wanted to tie this in with the age of consent. It’s true that the Right is also somewhat immutable when it comes to age of consent. It’s hard to say who is worse in this regard – but the Left is more notorious for using statistics that count anybody under the age of 18 as “children” for their nefarious purposes (gun violence, executions etc.).
I actually applaud ideologues for expressing their beliefs in contrast to the mainstream and “shaking” up the discussion. However it’s this intransigence that stymies real progress as well. it’s a dead end! Middle-of-the-roaders are infuriating as well.
True. Few arguments are won on the internet. I’ve changed my mind a few times on this blog, however. At that point, I ask myself if I should go back and amend my original post. I don’t do that unless it’s obvious that I was mistaken. Sometimes I like to throw ideas out there that I, myself, am not 100% certain of. I figure it’s healthy to let others debate them and I hope that the truth will eventually come out. As for the subject at hand, I did write “perhaps” and I did include conservatives as being guilty of immutability. Therefore, I think I made it clear that this is merely a suggestion of what might be going on – not a proclamation of fact.
BTW, did you know the link to your blog (in your handle/username) doesn’t work?
Oops, that was my fault.
Yes, blogging’s strength is the ability to express without regret. And I’ve come to learn, that is its weakness as well!
Reblogged this on oogenhand and commented:
“The Left, by and large, does not recognize the biological concept of race. One of the reasons it rejects this concept is that there are no clear boundaries between one race and another. This is, of course, a flawed argument but perhaps it is this same mentality that forces leftists (and conservatives) to insist on rigid age-of-consent laws. After all, if there is no clear boundary between childhood and adulthood (and there isn’t) then neither concept has any validity according to them. If so, there would be no basis for “statutory rape” laws. Even leftists will admit that ages of consent are arbitrary but “we have to draw the line somewhere” they say. ”